Acetone?

[ollllllo]

I have 2 Very close friends from high school that made some and installed them on their daily drivers.

they reported much improved throttle response and 8+mpg improvement.

They made them with nothing more than items purchased locally at any hardware store.

like anything else, they seem to have gotten bored with the experiments, so im not sure as to their full potential. but they were cool to see working.

[rejeep]

This is leading into two different threads… hydrogen fuel cell and what’s wrong with America..
I think we should split it so we can continue both.. (or kill one)
But first two comments on both..

Great video on the topic of fuel miser…  Even has a jeep as its lead character.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvZA-82QEOU


Now for the conversation that should never happen on internet forums or in bars….

itjustmeD wrote:
There would have been factory mass produced electric & other alternative fuel vehicles out on the road years ago

First issue with this is not the technology but the infrastructure of our great country.  Imagine if tomorrow president whoever decides that every American has to drive electric cars and we all get tax incentives/rebates to buy them..  ok great.. you head to work, talk about your new cars all day with your co workers and on the drive home run out of juice.. where do you fill up??  You can’t because the infrastructure of America is oil based.  No fault of anybody except our American ancestors who built this great country out of the great depression.  They tried this in California, failed for lack of infrastructure..  (I bought one of the old charging station signs on eBay)

itjustmeD wrote:
 \'Who killed the electric car\' great documentary!

Ok Michael Moore..  same people who think were in bed with Osama and yada yada yada..  I’m not arguing whether there is truth to this or not, but think of it this way.. America spends over $25 billion a year in the Persian gulf alone, and were not buying Falafel.. Every American despite political views or anything would rather see that money HERE!!!!  If you say it’s because of President Bush or the republicans.. well look at how much we spent under Clinton and still to this day.

itjustmeD wrote:
 The automotive industry has been in bed with the \'black gold barons\' for decades. Cars run on gas, we pay for the gas for our cars, the oil companies make trillions off of our dependency on our needing to fuel our cars. The auto industry -> the oil companies don\'t want us to use less gas they want us to use more & more & more

Again whether this is true or not the fact is American car companies are in the game to make money, just like everybody else.  If cars one day run on cupcakes they will make a car that runs on cupcakes to make MONEY!!! Ever see father of the bride, where Steve Martin freaks out because there are 8 hot dogs in a package and 12 buns in a package.. blames the CEO of each company to screw the American consumer…?!?!?  Common seriously??  There is no dispute that the internal combustion engine is THE MOST EFFICENT way to power a motor car.  Car companies have proven they can make cars that are small and fuel efficient.. AMERICANS as a whole DON’T WANT THEM.. we want our SUV’s and TRUCKS.. go to Europe, I was just there.. all they drive around in is small 4cyl turbo diesels that get 50MPG.. and guess who makes them FORD AND GM!!!!  

 

itjustmeD wrote:
Record breaking oil profits, sky rocketing oil prices, while we all lose our jobs & homes - that I believe is truly wrong.

Last time I checked we live in a capitalistic society.  I know for sure I’m not in business to break even.  I want to make as much money as possible.  Say what you want about the social ramifications, or our leaders inability to lead, but don’t shame companies for working to make a profit.  And when they make too much yelling at them for cashing in..  We might be heading into a socialist regime, but we aren’t there yet.  People are losing homes and jobs for other reasons than gas is too high.. and again that’s another topic..

Disclaimer:
This is my opinion and my opinion alone.. I respect differences of opinion as long as they are followed by facts.

MODS:
I would suggest that we lock this topic and move onto being constructive..  issues like this always end up bad.

[itjustmeD]

I agree lets kill the one subject & continue on with the hydrogen fuel cell discussion. There again I agree; the other type subject typically tends to lead into bad stuff. So lets drop that :) Though, one last thing that I would like to say about the other subject: honestly, you made some very good points, & gave me some stuff to think about. Thank you.

The friends that made the fuel cell, do they have any info online as to how they made theirs? I\'ve been researching online as to how to make them & have found sooooo many different variations that it\'s nuts. I even found a (I think) local guy that modded his XJ with HHO. He goes by dstaub on great lakes XJ forum.

One of the things that I\'m not sure on is where to have the HHO feed into the engine. The one guy taped up his, what looks like a K&N, cone & seriously restricted his XJ\'s air intake; while another guy was talking about using HHO injectors. Any suggestions?

[Joe]

The problem with the HHO setups is that there\'s no such thing as free energy. You end up using so much electricity for the electrolysis of water into hydrogen and oxygen that you can actually lower your mileage from your alternator bogging down. I used to get asked about this stuff all the time when people heard I worked on hydrogen fuel cells.

Some people do see increases in mileage from something like this, but it\'s usually only on older vehicles. The reason being that the hydrogen significantly raises combustion temperatures and cleans the carbon buildup out of the combustion chambers. If they stopped running the HHO setup, the increased mileage would still be there.

If you have a vehicle that is subject to a tailpipe emissions inspection, an HHO system could make it fail because the higher combustion temps increase NOx emissions.



Off topic...

On the subject of \"who killed the electric car\"... Michael Moore is a waste of oxygen. The GM EV1 program was a research project with a finite lifespan. The vehicles were actually run much longer than they were designed for because of the public outcry. They were built in short production runs from 1995 to 1998. The last 75 of them were driven here in Rochester, based at the GM fuel cell center in Honeoye Falls, until 2006 when there just weren\'t enough spare parts left to keep them going. The knowledge gained from the project has helped immensely with the Chevy Volt and GM Fuel Cell programs. All but 4 of the vehicles were destroyed because of one group of people... lawyers. The 4 kept intact (minus batteries and traction motors) are in the Smithsonian, the Ford museum, GM\'s private collection, and one university was given one to use as a test bed for electric drive trains and I think that was on a temporary basis.

And car companies are driven by car sales. If a company came out with a car that got 100 mpg tomorrow, you bet they would sell the hell out of that thing. They are not in bed with the oil companies. Fuel mileage has dropped over the last 15 years because of federal emissions regulations and crash protection requirements (cars are heavier). My \'94 saturn gets 45mpg. A Chevy Aveo gets 35 mpg.

Anyway, back on topic...


HHO on a car is a bunch of hooey.