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2nd Public Meeting Oct. 19, Northumberland OHV Park

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Offline CoraC143

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2nd Public Meeting Oct. 19, Northumberland OHV Park
« on: September 19, 2010, 10:34:54 AM »


 Hi Everyone,

 First I want to personally thank each and every one of you for your continued support of the Northumberland County OHV  Park Project. The name will be changing in the future to reflect our Anthracite Coal mining history and heritage. So if you have any idea\'s for our new name, please submit them to us.

  We have all been very busy working on making this project become a reality. Pat and Kathy from the Planning Dept have gone above and beyond their required positions to see this recreational area be funded and built in lower Northumberland County.  John, Steve, and Bob  from the engineering and design firm , are just totally amazing. I don\'t have to tell or describe to them what is needed or what we want .  They look at this unique piece of property as a diamond in the rough and they can see a world class facility in the making.

  We have some new and exciting additions that may be added to the park project. All I can say right now is  \" Stay Tuned In \" .

 Here is where I\'m going to ask for your help again . The 2nd  Public meeting is scheduled for :


                        TUESDAY OCT. 19, 2010 at the SHAMOKIN AREA HIGH SCHOOL AUDITORIUM AT 6:30pm

 Be there ! We are going to need you !  There is some vocal local resistance to this project. They have circulated a local petition againt this project. I personally know it has over 500 names on it ( probably a lot more by meeting time). Also a local environmental group has gotten involved and they are hugging the trees and telling everyone how we will \"destroy\" the land . They are also going out of their way to tell everyone how disrespectful we all are.   You all made a strong statement with your showing the first meeting , we need to do it again, only bigger. Bring a couple of friends or club members along this time.

 For those of you that will be coming from a good distance away.  Let us know for sure that you are coming so we are expecting you. I will arrange for you to meet the \"right\" people so you can directly tell them your opinion and idea\'s.

 Wear you club shirts and jackets as a sign of your support !!!

 Thanks again, and I look forward to seeing all of you.   Barry.

Offline CoraC143

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Re: 2nd Public Meeting Oct. 19, Northumberland OHV Park
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2010, 10:37:44 AM »
Erik and I will be going to the meeting and back in the same day. We are taking the Pat Pat, and there will be 3 open seats. Let\'s show our support for the future of our sport!!!!!!

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Offline MrMindless

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Re: 2nd Public Meeting Oct. 19, Northumberland OHV Park
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2010, 12:39:54 PM »
what time will you be leaving? sometime noon to 2pm I\'d assume?

Good timing on this meeting, that\'s just after one of my two weekends per year of craziness, so I should be able to get the afternoon....
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Offline CoraC143

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Re: 2nd Public Meeting Oct. 19, Northumberland OHV Park
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2010, 09:09:18 AM »
Last time I think we left at 1 and had dinner before the meeting.

Offline ollllllo

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Re: 2nd Public Meeting Oct. 19, Northumberland OHV Park
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2010, 05:23:42 PM »
Yea, diner before is much more enjoyable. Then after the meeting we can head straight home.
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Offline CoraC143

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Re: 2nd Public Meeting Oct. 19, Northumberland OHV Park
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2010, 09:30:48 AM »
I\'ve been reading some comments on Facebook. There seems to be some disturbing comments from the opposition. Showing our support can directly help make this park a reality.

Is anyone else interested in attending?

We would leave the rochester area around 1 and be back by 10pm

Offline CoraC143

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Re: 2nd Public Meeting Oct. 19, Northumberland OHV Park
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2010, 08:12:02 PM »
[color=009900]An email we received about this meeting:[/color]

Cora & Eric:  Just wanted to make sure that you know the next public meeting for the Northumberland County Off Highway Vehicle Park will be held on October 19 at 6:30 p.m. at Shamokin High School Auditorium (same location as July meeting).  At this meeting the consultant will lay out the draft master site plan for the park.  
 
Looking forward to this meeting(except for the opposition that is planning on coming out in full force).

Offline CoraC143

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Re: 2nd Public Meeting Oct. 19, Northumberland OHV Park
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2010, 08:23:45 PM »
POINTS OF CONTENTION REGARDING THE NORTHUMBERLAND COUNTY OHV PARK

Cora Crowley
Fingerlakes 4x4
Rochester, NY

I would like to start this letter by telling you a little about our 4x4 club and myself. Founded in 1984, Fingerlakes 4x4 is the oldest 4x4 club in western NY. We have a very diverse membership of 38 people ranging from college kids to retiree’s, from mechanics, contactors, engineers and CEO’s. We are a family oriented, environmentally conscious, community contributing club. One of our biggest contributions to the sport is hosting a 4x4-101 event that teaches safe, fun, responsible offroading techniques. This year we had over 100 participants. A little about myself, I was the president of Fingerlakes 4x4, now my boyfriend, Erik Jokinen,  is the current president. I am also an Architect, some of my views below come from an architectural perspective, some from an OHV enthusiast perspective. I’ve been offroading and modifying/fabricating Jeeps for 10 years. I’ve wheeled and competed in many states, including MA, NH, CA, UT, NV, VT, VA, NY, CT. We (myself and Erik) often travel 250+ miles for offroading events and parks, and on an average weekend we  spend  $800 or so in the immediate vicinity of the park and for park entrance fees.

This park can be the main OHV area in the eastern part of the US. Fingerlakes 4x4 is very excited about this proposal, and we want to do all that we can to help this project go through. I would like to address many of the opposing arguments against the opening of this park:

Use the money for the park to bring business here instead:

? Shamokin is too far from 80 and 81 to be economical for truck traffic. One of the highways leading out of town has a maximum vehicle length restriction that would exclude tractor trailers.
?The county can choose to do whatever they want with the land, and if more jobs are what the locals want, the county can build another federal or state prison, a large landfill, or even a nuclear power plant as neighboring counties and local townships have endorsed. These business types will create plenty of jobs, but the local people will probably be less receptive to a proposal of this type, versus an OHV park.
? Limerick Nuclear Power Plant - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limerick_Nuclear_Power_Plant
? Say the county entices a few businesses into the area, why would they want to build on unstable, undermined land? A building on this type of site would be nearly impossible to insure, and would be costly to engineer. A high cost of initial business start-up would decrease potential wages and deter business from the area.
?Could the underground fires of Centralia, and the possibility of the same thing happening here, be a deterrent to an incoming business, especially considering the proximity to these sites? How has Ashland’s economy, the neighboring town to Centralia, been affected by the underground fires?
?Municipalities entice business into an area, most commonly, by offering very low interest loans and very low taxes. Although more jobs will be created, the local’s who are employed here will have their income taxed, not the business. By comparison, the OHV park fees would go directly to the county and not from local pay checks.
?The majority of the money for the proposed park comes from grants for mine reclamation and OHV use, not out of the pocket of the county. These grants would not be approved for private business development. The county would have to offer only county monies to entice business to relocate to Shamokin or Coal Township.
?So if after all this a few businesses do move into the 6,0000 acre area, what happens to the remaining 5,500 or so acres? The increased tax revenue from big business would not be sufficient to pay for increased patrols of county land to remove trespassers, so the land would continue to be abused.

From this last point, I see this argument as a cover for those who wish to keep using the land in the disrespectful manner it has be in the last 30 years. What would the remaining 5,500 acres be used for? Even the largest business facilities, manufacturing plants and distribution centers, which, again, would be deterred by the distance to major highways, could only possibly use 100, maybe 200 acres. Perhaps people don’t realize how vast an area 6,000 acres really cover.  


The increased noise argument:


? Noise will be eliminated during quiet hours. Neighbors have never known the hills to be quiet at night. The park can only be seen as a positive from this perspective.
?Noise will be reduced by requiring ATV\'s to be inspected and registered. Many of the ATV\'s out there now have no inspections, and thus, may have illegal exhaust systems that are drastically louder than a legal exhaust system.
? Noise can be reduced by strategically locating quieter activities adjacent to residential areas. Such activities would include horseback riding, mountain biking, hiking and camping.

Environmental Issues:

?The land is polluted, undermined, and has been used as a trash dump for the last 30 years. The grant monies allotted for mine reclamation will be cleaning all of the polluted and unsafe areas, that can be salvaged. Some of the acid water pollution can never be repaired and will continue. The 6,000 acres of county land will be cleaned up if this park is approved.
?People in the larger OHV community are in family oriented, environmentally conscious clubs, such as ourselves. We  LOVE the outdoors and immersing ourselves in nature. We have no intentions of harming the land or flora and fauna in any way.
? The type of people that this park will attract is not the type of people that are currently abusing this land. There difference between the family oriented club and the illegal renegade trail blazer is night and day. I want nothing to do with any of the activities that are going on up there now, and quite frankly, these folks that are abusing the land give the entire sport a bad reputation. After seeing what we saw up there during a county approved tour, I certainly would never bring my family up there, I wouldn’t even bring my dog for fear he may step on a drug needle, a used contraceptive, or be shot by an intoxicated person shooting beer cans for fun (all activities/detritus I observed on this tour). I agree that this land has been abused for many years, and is in a disgusting state. This park will clean all of this up, police the area so it can’t happen again, and make a safe environment for families to recreate. Like I said before, we are in this sport because we love nature and the outdoors, and we want to see this land cleaned up as much as any environmentalist.

?A vast nature preserve will not generate enough revenue to adequately police the area. Trash dumping, partying, underage drinking, and illegal trespassing, etc. would probably resume soon after a preserve was established. The funds generated from an OHV park, i.e. approximately $30 a driver per day, would enable a sizeable security system to be implemented. This OHV Park can permanently prevent this land from ever returning to its current deplorable state.
 
? Keep public land open to the respectful public. Many of our club members, and many people in this sport choose to recreate in an OHV  because they are not physically able to enjoy the outdoors without assistance. There is a common phrase in our sport ‘Keep public land open to the public, not just the elitist, super fit backpacker.’ The land access issues are a slippery slope, first to be crucified are OHV’s, then mountain biking, then horseback riding, then hiking, with a result of a hermetically sealed off reserve that no one can enjoy. An abandoned and polluted mining area doesn’t seem like the best base for a nature preserve, a pristine hidden valley in the Rockies, perhaps, but not here. An alternate to the John Muir perspective would be a family oriented, environmentally respectful, educational recreation area for all to enjoy.

? The vast wildlife areas currently in the state of PA currently outweigh the small area of the proposed Northumberland OHV park. Perhaps a more diverse park system, such as including OHV areas,  will introduce more people into the natural environment.  
Wildlife and habitat in PA
State Parks: 116 Acreage: 282,500
State Forest Districts: 20 Acreage: 2,200,000
State Game Lands: 294 Acreage: 1,379,002

? Biodiversity – The 6,000 acres of Northumberland County land, since its abandonment by the coal companies 30 years ago, has not been reclaimed and repopulated with native species of plants. The land is now feral and is not a good representation of the natural biodiversity found in a virgin forest. The area is populated with many weed species and invasive species. For this reason I don’t think this area would be best used as a nature preserve.    

?There are many charity and community based OHV events that bring disabled, underprivileged and cancer-fighting persons out into the woods to enjoy a day of adventure and excitement from the comfort of an OHV.

How our club is an environmentally conscious and respectful club:

? Our club, as do many others, require each vehicle to carry safety equipment and spill clean-up kits. Spills, as well as accidents are very rare.                                                       ?40% of our club’s active wheelers run propane powered vehicles. Propane powered vehicles have very low emissions. Here is an informational page from the U.S. Department of energy for Alternative fuel vehicles:  http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/vehicles/emissions_propane.html  ? Our club is a highway sponsor of a large highway in Rochester, NY. Being active in community service is one way we reinforce our commitment to the community and the environment.
?We host a 4x4-101 event where we teach people new to the sport how to enjoy offroading in a safe, respectful and environmentally sustainable manor. This year we had over 100 participants. During this event we covered the guidelines of Tread Lightly and Blue Ribbon Coalition.              
? Our club is a member of Tread Lightly and Blue Ribbon Coalition. We have incorporated their guidelines into our club’s mission statement and actively promote their, and our, goals towards  sustainable offroading.                                                                                     http://www.treadlightly.org/                                                                                http://www.sharetrails.org/


Anthracite coal Heritage and Learning Center:

? Whale Back – I would love to see the county reserve resources to create an educational center for the whale back. This site is amazing, and truly unique. The state of the land now is not safe for college students, or anyone, really, to visit.                                                      ?Another common trait among responsible OHV enthusiasts is the sense of adventure and discovery. Including historical sites and geological sites as part of this park will make it exciting and educational. This park, if seen to its fullest potential, will be comparable to a National Park. ? I think the move towards the Anthracite Coal Heritage Park is very commendable, and will be greatly received by the OHV community.

It’s public land, so we can do with it what we want:

?First of all, the use of public land is a privilege, not a right. This entitlement attitude and irresponsible OHV use are closing thousands of acres of public land. Would you go into Yellowstone National Park, drink and drive on your ATV and go shoot some buffalo for fun? It’s public land, right? There has to be rules for public land use, so people can experience the outdoors in a safe and family friendly environment.

We shouldn’t have to pay to go on public land:

?First of all, the use of public land is a privilege, not a right.
?  Park fees pay for the maintenance of the park, so it won’t look like the garbage dump the land currently resembles.
? Park fees also go towards park employee pay and county funded projects and local improvements.

How about some positives:

?Increasing real estate values - Erik and I have been thinking about purchasing a cabin in the area. I am sure we aren\'t the only ones who will see this as a vacation area.                                  
?Most of the profits from the park will go directly towards county projects, i.e. local improvements. This park has to potential to lower local taxes.
?Less accidents, although some argue there will be more, but I think once you eliminate drunk driving, there will be a drastic reduction in accidents. In all my years’ offroading at large parks and public OHV lands, and through the large group of friends I have accumulated, I have only heard of, not even witnessed,  two accidents that required a trip to the hospital. Of these two accidents, they were minor and these people were driven to the hospital by a friend, so no ambulance or medivac was required. How many accidents occur in a typical summer week out there now? How many medivac\'s this summer alone? How many of these accidents occurred under the influence of alcohol or illicit drugs? Were the injured persons wearing proper safety equipment? On our tour of the property, I didn’t see a single person riding an ATV with a helmet.
? Revitalize the  local economy, from local business to chain stores, hotels and restaurants.  The trickle-down effect of this park will increase the local economy in almost every aspect. ?National and regional recognition. This park can change the history of Shamokin and Coal Township, from a once obscure coal town with a depressed economy, to a progressive inspiration to areas facing economical hardship, crime and many severe or fatal accidents.

So I\'m sure you have read many of these arguments, but the one that bothers me the most is the \'bring big business here.’ I think this is a scapegoat to keep things the way they are, but under the cover of sounding like a good community idea. I do understand the desperation of the local community to bring jobs to the area. The long term revitalization the OHV park can offer is a better option that a temporary, unreliable fix of big business.                                                                                                    
The environmental argument is also a heavy one, not because of the actual situation, but because of the bandwagon effect and popular culture’s emphasis on being green. From an architectural standpoint, the entire green, or sustainable, movement has come under fire because it lacks depth and critical analysis. Being green for the sake of being green does not constitute a well rounded decision that takes into consideration all of the human factors, including free trade, the American’s for Disabilities Act (ADA), political influences, economical influences, historical preservation, biodiversity, community interests, job creation, etc. All important factors when considering a public project.

The proposed OHV park could be a world class facility that resembles a National Park. Picture a Grand Lodge, educational center for the Whale Back, Historical tours of the abandoned mining buildings and tunnels, spectacular views, multiple camping areas - from primitive to full RV sites, real bathrooms, accurate maps, and most importantly, the privilege to recreate.

 



Offline ollllllo

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Re: 2nd Public Meeting Oct. 19, Northumberland OHV Park
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2010, 08:38:40 PM »
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Return aprox. 12am
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Offline Wingman

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Re: 2nd Public Meeting Oct. 19, Northumberland OHV Park
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2010, 07:25:07 AM »
Nice write-up Cora!

Regrettably, I\'m not able to make this meeting.  Thanks for making the trip for us!

Offline smichaelR22

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Re: 2nd Public Meeting Oct. 19, Northumberland OHV Park
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2010, 02:37:32 PM »
cora, i hadnt had a chance to read your writeup and response to the opposition untill today.  very nice work.


I may be in for the ride down if there are still empty seats.  is the 1pm leaving plan still pretty solid?
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Offline CoraC143

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Re: 2nd Public Meeting Oct. 19, Northumberland OHV Park
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2010, 04:57:41 PM »
We may need another vehicle,  but we can play that by ear.

Offline CoraC143

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Re: 2nd Public Meeting Oct. 19, Northumberland OHV Park
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2010, 09:41:40 PM »
[color=009900]I have been corresponding with the Planning Director for Northumberland County. He has forwarded my revised version of the letter posted above to the following:[/color]


Cora:

Thanks for the letter.  I have forwarded it to our consultants, the local representative and state representative for this project of DCNR, members of the NOHVCC Community that will be holding a workshop/conference here the day prior to the public meeting.  They also will be at the public meeting on Oct. 19th.  Finally I have forwarded to our Commissioners and Chief Clerk for their review as well.

Thanks

Pat

I have revised my original post of the letter to the version I sent to Northumberland County, and has thus been sent to the above people.  

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Re: 2nd Public Meeting Oct. 19, Northumberland OHV Park
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2010, 08:58:11 AM »
Great write up. I want to make one of these meetings, just to show support and show that the support extends further west. I unfortunately am not able to attend this one which will only leave the third and final meeting. Thanks for making it to all of these meetings regarding a future ohv park that we all will get to use.

Offline CoraC143

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Re: 2nd Public Meeting Oct. 19, Northumberland OHV Park
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2010, 07:30:02 PM »
Wow, so I just an email forwarded to me from the Planning Director of Northumberland county that he included my letter to an email response to the [color=996600]Sierra Club!!!
[/color]
Here is the quote from his email:


\"Finally I have attached a letter I received from a young lady who visited this project area several months ago.  She is very passionate about the environment, and is a motorized recreation user.  I encourage you to reach out to her and discuss her experiences with the responsible motorized recreation community.  I’m confident you will find every person on the steering committee and the various responsible recreation users are all people who enjoy and want the environment protected.

I’m confident once you see the concept plan, you will be pleased with the preliminary results and that we have taken all the precautions on environmental concerns possible.\"  

 

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