Recovery knowledge

[Dragon]

Ok, not sure what all is covered in an Offroad 101, but after reading a thread on the JK forum, and another on the Virtual Jeeps Club site, I\'ve started thinking.

What happens if a rig becomes undriveable, or requires severe measure to recover?

the threads I am referring to talk about a guy wheeling a 4-door JK on some trails near Saguaro Lake, AZ (which happens to be about 15 miles away from my parents).
He drove up one hill, stopped and put his p-brake on so he could get out and watch others climb the hill.
His Jeep started rolling down the other side of the hill toward the lake, and he jumped in to try to stop it.
He and the Jeep went end-over-end down the hill, coming to rest upside down near the bottom of a steep slope.
The guy was banged up, but otherwise ok, the Jeep was destroyed.

The Virtual Jeep Club, which operates in the area, organized a recovery while the guy was at the hospital being checked out.
25 Jeeps, a J10, and a few others were involved, and it required 4 winches to upright the Jeep and drag it up the slope and put it on a trailer someone managed to pull out to the site.

I know, in that situation, I wouldn\'t know the safest way to recover a downed rig.  I\'d like to learn how to do some recovery as it could become useful, even out here in the East.
Is this something that can be added to a run?  Maybe give some tips in case the worst happens?

Here\'s a link to the Threads.  The first is the Jeep forum thread, the second is the VJC thread tryin to organize the rescue.

http://www.jk-forum.com/showthread.php?t=68961

http://virtualjeepclub.com/showthread.php?t=40983

[MrMindless]

sounds like it was a very complex recovery.

What a day/night! I have to say a HUGE thanks to everybody for their help!!! I know I will miss naming critical people in this post who helped, but that is only because I was super busy and not even aware of all that was going on behind the scenes. Its amazing to read this thread to see what was happening behind the scenes, to scramble help after I only had to leave a few msgs for people (Rox, Silvacon, BaronVonroot, Digger, HvyHaul, Knockonit, DavidC, others...)

The JK guys were hanging in Cove 2 and some were leaving after lunch. We still wanted to run some trails and I thought some of these guys who hadnt been there would like to run the hill at Cove 1. Me and James decided to take a look at the hill going from 1 to 2. James went up it, and got a sideways on a bump out, half way up. I walked up to spot him over it, and he continued on. I told him to make a HARD right when he got to the top, as it is really narrow up there. He was almost cresting, so I walked down the hill to my Jeep at the bottom. Just as I reached my Jeep, everybody yelled that he went over and started running up the hill. I gassed it up the hill to reach the top, and thought the worse as I knew what the other side looked like. As I crested and stopped, I couldnt believe his Jeep was laying on its top about 100 feet down, BUT he was climbing up the hill toward us! I grabbed his hand got him to the peak and tried to get him to sit in my Jeep and relax...

After the \"excitement\" wore off and we realized that James was pretty much OK, most of the other guys on the run had to leave. It was just me and 2 other Jeeps that were with this guy from Tucson. I knew he needed to get checked out and to call his wife, and I had to get notice to some members here to see about getting some help. The driver (James) jumped in with me and we headed back toward the gate to get cell service. I left a couple of msg before I got a couple people on the phone. I was dropping calls, so started to wonder if my messages were even heard. Anyway, I didnt get real confirmation that I got the word out, but was pretty hopeful. James jumped in with another Jeeper that was heading out, and they took him to the hospital. I went back to the cove to \"watch\" the Jeep, to formulate an extraction plan, and be sure to be where I told people I would meet them.

About an hour went by, and I kept getting notices on my cell that I had like 20 messages, but I couldnt retrieve them out there. I was able to get a couple of text messages, and maybe send some but not all. So, I started back to the gate to try to get some info from my phone. On my way, Digger called out to me on the CB. She and Shane and a couple others were on the way out to the cove, and they confirmed that this thread had been started and help was being assembled. We met up, and drove back to the cove. Some thought went into whether or not we should try a recovery without the insurance company being notified yet. One of the JK\'er from Tucson (Ken) went out with Digger to call the driver for consent. Game on.

A guy in a trick J10 with a big winch offered to help. We were racing the sunlight, so decided to get on it right away. The plan was to have the J10 and Ken on the ridge, with me on the Cove 2 downhill side to anchor them. Good plan, and we got it rigged up, until Ken\'s \"great deal on a brand new Mile Marker winch off of Ebay\" started flashing pretty colors and not working. Luck would have it that Silvacon/Ernie pulled up and we put him into place. We got it flipped over and face up hill. Major props to HvyHaul/Shane for taking the lead and organizing. Several of us hiked up and down that steep hill to rig, change straps and position the busted JK.

By now it was dark... I just kept seeing strings of headlights pouring into the cove and also up on the ridge. We had huge KC\'s on the top and in the bottom. Whoever that guy was by the water ROCKS. He lit up the whole side of that hill for us. People were bringing supplies (thanks for the jerky you sent up Digger!), organizing the trailer (Knockonit/Rick, Thunder550/Chris, 1BDRUBI/Billy, TheBen...), the lights (Wedico/Nate, and others)...

So, I ended up having to get in line and strap on my winch (from my new stout bumper- thx Mallcrawler06!). The three of us pulled and made some progress. Then a guy in a Powerwagon with his built in winch got on top to help, too. So, we had the Powerwagon and the J10 at angles from the outside and Ernie and I in the middle pulling... Shane was organizing and telling which of us to pull to take it around ledges and rocks on the way up, and when to have ALL 4 of us pull. I cant remember the name of the who was steering the rig, but he was both brave and a huge help...

We got it up, changed the one flat tire, Ben got it on the flatbed, everybody strapped and secured... and then the funeral procession started its way out. All in all, it was another amazing effort and display of teamwork. There was a huge emphasis on safety throughout, as those winch lines were under serious tension and the pull vehicles were in precarious positions up top. This group never stops impressing me. The best part is that I was only able to get limited communication out to a just a few people... yet I had total confidence that a big group was being assembled while we waited. The JK guys were looking a little concerned, and just kept telling them... dont worry, we will have a huge posse of help in no time... and we DID.

I know I left several out, and there were a LOT more people there. There was a LOT more being done to help other than just what was happening on the hill. So, a HUGE thanks to my Jeep family for helping out!

I\'d like to cover some basic recovery techniques but it\'s a hard thing to stage and drawings don\'t quite capture it....  we\'re also Very Short on winches.

if anyone has any bright ideas on teaching this without damaging vehicles in the process, please chime in.

[GTJake]

wow...

in our \"4x4 101\" class we will go over SOME recovery tactics. but sometimes its hard to PLAN for the un expected ya know?
The important things here were that they rushed the kid to the hospital, the next thing is that we have a good group of people who wouldnt leave if you needed help. (I know this first hand) IF SOMEHOW you roll your vehicle down a giant hill...I would imagine we would TRY to be nice to it when it was recovered...but the name of the game is \"get it home\". worry about the damage later

[MrMindless]

I disagree on \"get it home\" at cost of unneeded damage, though in the case of your bumper there was no better option as far as I know....

[MassiveAttack]

\"I was only able to get limited communication out to a just a few people...\"

\"...we headed back toward the gate to get cell service. I left a couple of msg before I got a couple people on the phone. I was dropping calls, so started to wonder if my messages were even heard.\"

I\'ll offer to help by becoming a VE and donate my time to get more people amateur radio licenses. I did it and it\'s easy.

It doesn\'t cost any more than a CB to have a quality rig in your ride. The sound quality and range are vastly better than CB and with most of the North East being \"blanketed\" by repeaters, your never without help no matter where you go. There are features like phone patches that will connect you in emergencies and technologies like APRS that will give you GPS tracking and simple text messaging. The equipment is way better than CB and with the right stuff, you can talk to your group on the trail, or someone hundreds of miles away.

Properly qualified VEs (volunteer examiners) can offer the test anywhere at anytime so we could probably have a session or two when it\'s best for our members.

Mudnuts my also want to look into getting NIMS qualified and hooking up with the local CERT team. It\'s all free and there\'s a lot of neat stuff to play with and learn. Being NIMS qualified would also allow those wishing to help with transportation needs in big emergencies. (snowstorms, floods, etc..) ERAs (Emergency Response Agencies) don\'t even look at volunteers anymore if they aren\'t NIMS qualified.

As a bonus, if the club did that, people in the local and state government will notice and maybe we could change some of the negative stigma attached to off-roaders. Groups and clubs that work as volunteer qualified ERAs also get state and federal grants.

I\'m offing my help to get \"rolling\".

[GTJake]

Mindless- after thinking about it I would TRY to not cause any more damage. and yes, in the case of my front bumper, it was a case of \"just get it home\" and the bumper needed to be sacarificed. Im not saying to drag something on its roof out of the woods just to get it done, but Im also not saying that i would lay down sheets of bubble wrap to make sure the vehicle wasnt scratched while recovering. Offroading is a SPORT...safety first, last and always, but sometimes damage is unavoidable.
I guess my point is that if my jeep was to roll and be in a dangerous location, Im not going to risk my friends safety to prevent more damage on my rig. I know that Im probably the only one, but I have full coverage on my rig. As much as I do love my XJ, at the end of the day its just a pile of metal.

[MrMindless]

nope you\'re not the only one but as I\'m sure you know offroading damage isn\'t exactly part of full coverage.

[GTJake]

i made sure that its covered under my state farm. same on my ATV.

depends on what it is i guess...backed into a tree... rolled it over while on my \"friends\" land...etc...

...im calling my agent to verify

[MassiveAttack]

Deer. No matter what happens, It all started with Bambi on a public highway on a dark and rainy night... And your real sorry.

[CoraC143]

Ok, well I have a few issues with this story,

1.) He jumped into a rolling out of control vehicle.... ARE YOU KIDDING ME. basic common sense is hard to teach, but I guess it needs to be. YOUR JEEP IS NOT WORTH YOUR LIFE.

2.) The recovery was started without there owner there to supervise.  There was no one appointed by the vehicle owner present to supervise the recovery.

Without being there, or hearing the story from an experienced wheeler, I can?t say if the recovery was ?good? or ?bad.?

I have been against teaching winching and advanced recovery techniques in the 4x4 101, but because of this story, and remembering my first recovery and winching experiences, I think we should cover these situations.

NOT Every person with a winch knows how to use it.

The owner of the vehicle should always be present at the recovery and direct the recovery. If he or she does not feel that they have enough experience for the situation, then they should appoint a trusted, experienced friend.

Good points on radio issues Sam, just need to dumb it down for the rest of us.

ANY recovery can be seriously dangerous to any by-stander, so the less spectators, the better. If you want to watch to learn, stand behind a tree or obstacle that is at least 100%  of the winch line?s distance away from any point of the winch line. Example: winch line is pulled out to 75? you should stand AT LEAST 75? away. The winch line should always have a ?line weight.?  More to come in the 4x4 101.

Another section to come in the 4x4 101 is trail etiquette, which is something we could all use a bit more of.

[MassiveAttack]

O.K! That\'s the long answer. The short version is, if your interested in helping out in emergencies by putting all that good off-roading knowledge to work, playing with your go-anywhere off road vehicle and maybe changing some of the bad public opinion about off roaders, get your ham license. It\'s free and easier than doing your taxes. Then go online for two hours and get NIMS qualified. (which is also free) Then when \"it\" hits the proverbial fan, government and private agencies will look at you to help with their transportation needs.

I\'m offering to help by volunteering my knowledge and time to make the first part child-safety-cap proof.

I\'d love to get a group going that could volunteer to help out in emergencies with specialized knowledge in transportation and recovery during less than desirable conditions.

[fedrusion]

You mean something like FEAT.

http://www.hightrails.org/feat.html

[MassiveAttack]

Yes, but more organized.

Around here, your going to need to show some credentials for the state and county governments to take you seriously.

All the qualifying work is free and could be knocked out in a few weekends.

The bonus is, if your a legit civil service agency with the proper credentials, there\'s state and federal money available.

[Dragon]

I\'m interested in the HAM stuff.
I\'d be willing to participate if you were having some kind of lecture/class/etc. for the initial HAM license.

Then I gotta figure out where to get the money for a radio/antenna, and how to add it to the Jeep  :)

[Wingman]

I\'d also be interested.