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TJ5 project re-start

Author Topic: TJ5 project re-start  (Read 3460 times)

Offline bear555

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TJ5 project re-start
« on: August 31, 2014, 12:47:06 PM »
I am re-starting a project that has been on the back burner for a while.
The Goal is to take a CJ5 body and put it on a TJ frame, Comp cut the rear of the tub and extend the hood line. I will attach a drawing I made later.
I have:
A running CJ5 with rusty frame, fiberglass body and ACME hardtop.
Gen1 350 with new cam, 64CC heads and new intake.
SM465 works well but shifts like a wet noodle.
T-18 needs rebuild
(2) Ford 205s (driver drop)
8.8 Explorer axle with limited slip and disks
d30 hp xj front (long term this will be upgraded).
sanded and painted TJ frame with saddle mount for Gen1 Chevy.
Hydro-boost MC from the 350 doner.

Discussion:
You can see where this project is going, but I am not committed to the tranny. I have a hacked up chevy bell with the t-18 mounted and the ford 205 on the long adapter. I haven't started any tranny rebuilds of purchased any adapters yet.  The Mocked up t-18 drive line looks long....The stock adapter is around 8 inches long!  The Wife will not drive it without an automatic, but I am worried about the drive line length.

Here are some numbers I am crunching, remember we are talking TJ frame so here is where I am looking for opinions. This assumes I keep the Ford205.....

type    trans   bell   adapter   total trans
sm465   12       6.5      3?   21.5
700r4   23.4                  3.625     27.025
nv4500   18.8   6.5              1.625      26.995
th350   21.7                  3.625     25.375
4l60e   21.9                  4.2        26.1
t18      11.87   6.5        8.875   27.245

So will any of these drive lines fit in a TJ?
Thoughts

Offline Wingman

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Re: TJ5 project re-start
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2014, 04:01:58 PM »
Glad to see you back Ian!  I like the plan so far.  What is the tire size goal?

With my Willys project that will have a comparable wheelbase as a TJ at 88-90", driveline length was one of my primary concerns.  Assuming you want to keep decent horsepower numbers, your automatic selections get narrowed fast.  I concluded that only 2 were even in the running, the TH350 (no OD) and the 4L60E (decent 1st and OD).  Both will survive behind a small block easily.

I didn't do a lot of research in the manual field, but most non-OD units are fairly compact as long as you can mate them to your transfer case with a short adapter.  SM465s are stout, great low gear, and fairly common.  You can source short output shafts and adapters from a few places like Off Road Design and run your Ford NP205.  This would likely have been my choice except for a D300 instead of the NP205.

ps.  I have a manual linkage bell, a hydro clutch bell, and a good SM465, if needed.

Offline bear555

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Re: TJ5 project re-start
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2014, 08:23:09 PM »
I was looking at that short shaft, it would be a good thing to do at the same time as a rebuild of the tranny.


Offline bear555

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Re: TJ5 project re-start
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2014, 04:22:29 PM »
After some extensive number crunching I'm leaning towords 350, NV4500, Ford205.
There are a few nv4500 rebuilders out there that I have found that can create a nv4500 with a chevy front and a dodge back. This would allow for a simple 1.25 spacer between the tanny and the transfer case.

thoughts?

Offline MrMindless

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Re: TJ5 project re-start
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2014, 09:00:10 AM »
Are you planning to street and wheel this thing? It's not going to be buggy-class beat the snot out of it, is it?

I might suggest saving money and weight both by going a different route. The NV4500 has an amazing gearing range, from a deep first through overdrive. But building from scratch and gearing everything the right way from "go," do you really need that? Go with a 2.7 or 4:1 chain driven case and save a ton of weight vs the 205 and run a 4 speed instead of a 5 speed?

You'd have to run the numbers but I'd think you could gear your axles right for the road and use a decent low rang for crawl without an extra long extra expensive transmission.
Michael Maskalans
#571 Last Minute Motorsports
High Miler: 07.5 Ram 6.7 6sp 4x2, ARB, 19.5s
98 TDI beater
Road Block: 98 Dakota Lockright HP 60/Welded 10.25, 5.38s, 203/205 triple stick, 42" SXs
Dumpbus: 97 Ram 24v P-pumped, RoadRanger 13sp
'87 AMC Eagle Wagon

Offline Wingman

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Re: TJ5 project re-start
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2014, 04:20:08 PM »
... building from scratch and gearing everything the right way from "go," do you really need that? Go with a 2.7 or 4:1 chain driven case and save a ton of weight vs the 205 and run a 4 speed instead of a 5 speed? ...

This is why I chose the Dana 300.  Half the weight of the NP205 and strong enough with the proper upgrade to the tail shaft.  Also has lower gearing options.

Offline bear555

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Re: TJ5 project re-start
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2014, 09:08:57 PM »
I ran the numbers on gearing on the 4500 (early and late gearing).  see attached, this is rpm vs mph with aggressive vs. easy acceleration. these number assume 3.73 axles.  Running this ratio with a big tire points to not needing the OD in a non diesel. This Coupled with a lower low on the transfer case is a nice option. Dumb question, can I get a dana300 in driver drop?  the other reason I was liking the 205 was also length. If my info is correct the 231 with a sye is 16 7/8 long, while the ford 205 is 12-13 , plus I have 2 of them :) in good condition.

205 weight is 145 lbs
4500 weights 195 lbs
465 weight is 175 lbs
300 weight is 95 lbs
231 weight is <80 lbs
Atlas2 weight is 110 lbs

after looking at gearing and cost, SM465, F205 is looking really good.
Keep throwing out suggestions and I'll get the data!

Offline Wingman

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Re: TJ5 project re-start
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2014, 06:48:18 AM »
The D300 can be flipped pretty easily as long as you have accommodation for the shifters or purchase a Stak case. It isn't an inexpensive proposition with gearing, tailshaft, and housing at about 2/3 the cost of an Atlas.

Offline bear555

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Re: TJ5 project re-start
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2014, 09:35:35 PM »

Offline MrMindless

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Re: TJ5 project re-start
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2014, 10:06:13 AM »
Certainly a combination that was on my mind. Funny how a 465 makes a 231 look long


Tapatalking in traffic
Michael Maskalans
#571 Last Minute Motorsports
High Miler: 07.5 Ram 6.7 6sp 4x2, ARB, 19.5s
98 TDI beater
Road Block: 98 Dakota Lockright HP 60/Welded 10.25, 5.38s, 203/205 triple stick, 42" SXs
Dumpbus: 97 Ram 24v P-pumped, RoadRanger 13sp
'87 AMC Eagle Wagon