TECHNICAL FORUMS => General Tech => Topic started by: JCJ on July 03, 2010, 01:08:04 PM
Title: losing my 258
Post by: JCJ on July 03, 2010, 01:08:04 PM
I was on my way from Plattsburgh to Webster last weekend when my clanker started smoking during deceleration.. More than likely rings,but for sure time for a rebuild anyway so it doesnt really matter. PCV is in good order but shes pushing oil into the air cleaner. I ended up leaving my CJ in Webster and rode home with my wife in her car.. Better safe than sorry.. cause it sure isn\'t going to fix itself..
Could anyone recommend a machine shop around Rochester? I\'ll do my own assembly unless the price is to good to beat.
Also considering buying a reman, not interested in v-8\'s on this one but I am open to any suggestions and discussion..
Title: Re: losing my 258
Post by: Nick on July 03, 2010, 01:41:13 PM
http://www.farmerautomotive.com/
These guys are right in webster 52 Commercial St Webster, NY 14580.
Title: Re: losing my 258
Post by: JCJ on July 03, 2010, 02:33:32 PM
Excellent, thanks Nick.. Looks like they do it all.. I\'m coming back up in 2 weeks, I\'ll stop in and see what they have to say..
Title: Re: losing my 258
Post by: smichaelR22 on July 04, 2010, 07:28:27 AM
my opinion dont bother rebuilding it cheaper to get a reman. i got one to my door for about $1000, i didnt send the core back either.
i got mine from these guys:
http://www.flitelineenginesupply.com/
Title: Re: losing my 258
Post by: JCJ on July 04, 2010, 04:40:01 PM
I agree based on those prices.. looks like around $1200 shipped w/ no core.. Then I can put my oe 258 on an engine stand and rebuild it at my leisure for future considerations, maybe in a flat fender..
Thanks,
Title: Re: losing my 258
Post by: rejeep on July 06, 2010, 01:17:47 PM
cant put a 258 in a flat fender without MAJOR work.. get a reman.. cant get en engine built locally for cheaper, even if you so all the work your self.. biggest mistake I made..
hell want to buy mine.. ill sell it to you for what I have into it and then bu a reman to throw back in..
Title: Re: losing my 258
Post by: JCJ on July 07, 2010, 01:22:14 PM
Flightline is out of stock on the 258 and can\'t say when or if they will bother building anymore..
Title: Re: losing my 258
Post by: smichaelR22 on July 07, 2010, 01:53:00 PM
wow really. What was the guys name Elivis or something? he was fun.
Title: Re: losing my 258
Post by: JCJ on July 07, 2010, 02:38:52 PM
Bill Kalinowski is the guy.
I\'m talking with S&J Engines in Spokane,
Quote
Freight cost to a business is 175.00 or direct to your residence for 255.00 with a lift gate truck. Also the current price on this engine is 1295.00 plus 400.00 core charge. However I see that the net price is 1163.00. I can honor that price on the engine however the core charge will need to stay at 400.00. It’s getting hard to come buy these engines and our core suppliers know it.
And JeepEngineSales.com
Title: Re: losing my 258
Post by: rejeep on July 07, 2010, 07:51:04 PM
talk to nu way autoparts.. our supplier has them in stock
Title: Re: losing my 258
Post by: JCJ on July 20, 2010, 06:39:36 PM
Well the Cj made it back to Indy yesterday with no major problems. Just a gallon of oil,,
I was reading over at \"Jeep forum\" in the Cj section and stumbled upon a smoking/blow by discussion thread, one suggestion was as a test to plug the vacuum line that T\'s into the PCV from the charcoal canister purge valve.. I guess my purge valve is bad because that seemed to eliminate 3/4 of the smoke by actually letting the PCV get some suction.. Still uses a quart every tank of gas and sounds like hell but I think Jeeps are supposed to.
So my ever changing plans have changed again.. I think maybe I\'ll limp it along while I gather up the bits to do a rebuild myself. Hopefully I can find a donor 258 motor so I don\'t have to take the Jeep out of commission while it\'s being machined.. And hopefully I can stop myself from going crazy trying to make a 258 into something it was never meant to be.
Title: Re: losing my 258
Post by: rejeep on July 21, 2010, 09:58:56 AM
the 258 is prob one of the best off-road motors ever put into a jeep.. your right that you shouldn’t make it what it wasn’t meant to be, but there are a few things that you can do to make it perform as good as it can..
things I did to mine and my honest opinions.. 1. Howell TBI.. worth every cent to FI this motor.. if you only do one thing it’s would be it 2. 4.0L head upgrade.. NOT WORTH IT.. only helps the motor above 3000 RPM.. not ideal for off-road or even street driving with deep gears and large tires 3. Headers.. same as above 4. Cam.. 100% effective.. don’t go over 264 Duration and you will be wowed... 5. HEI.. don’t bother 6. TFI.. great alternative, simple and easy to manage stock distrib still used 7. machining the block/head... this is still up for argument in my book. a slight cut of the head to increase compression would be ok, but a heavy cut and you’ll be running race fuel like I am to reduce pinging.. 8. roller rockers.. don’t do anything 9. increase bore... only as much as needed for rebuild.. don’t think it will increase power SOOO much.. it wont
I have built several 258\'s over the years.. and have done all of these modifications at one point or another..
my suggestions.. Fuel injection, cam and have a nice day... (and don’t skimp on bearings and rings.. used Sealed power and a good machine shop)
Title: Re: losing my 258
Post by: Crusarius on July 21, 2010, 11:29:22 AM
I have a 94 xj I am parting out. the 4.0 was overheated and no longer runs best cylinder has 70 psi compression worst has 30 and drops fast. but its a great fuel injected starting point. you want it you come get it and you can have it for 200 with whatever else that is needed to make it run. last time it ran it ran great. no smoke and plenty of power. my guess is blown head gasket and possibly warped head.
if your interested email me crusarius at g mail dot [om
Title: Re: losing my 258
Post by: JCJ on July 22, 2010, 10:28:29 AM
1. Howell TBI.. worth every cent to FI this motor.. if you only do one thing it’s would be it At some point I will but I\'m not ready yet.. I\'ve been working with the disabled feedback carb with great results. I fully realize it\'s limitations once I get serious about off roading it but for now it\'s getting 19+ mpg with no flat spots.. I admit I\'m just stubborn.
2. 4.0L head upgrade.. NOT WORTH IT.. only helps the motor above 3000 RPM.. not ideal for off-road or even street driving with deep gears and large tires.
I agree, from what I have read it seems like a hillbilly approach to fix a problem that doesn\'t exist but just creates more issues.
3. Headers.. same as above
Agreed, Much like the 4l head it will only move the power band up, I just recently installed a new down pipe made for a 78\' on my stock manifold. Dead nuts reliable, unlike most headers.
4. Cam.. 100% effective.. don’t go over 264 Duration and you will be wowed...
Cool, I\'ll be looking for specific part# recommendations once I\'m ready to order parts.
5. HEI.. don’t bother 6. TFI.. great alternative, simple and easy to manage stock distrib still used I\'ve completed the \"Nutter bypass\" emissions delete and installed the big Ford cap, MSD plug wires, MSD blaster conventional coil and installed a direct to battery ground harness for every ignition component along with 2/0 overkill welding wire battery cable. She\'s pretty happy but I am always open to further improve spark energy.
7. machining the block/head... this is still up for argument in my book. a slight cut of the head to increase compression would be ok, but a heavy cut and you’ll be running race fuel like I am to reduce pinging..
Based on my previous experience I\'ve found advancing the timing as much as you can get away with on pump gas yields more power gain than a 1 or 2 bump of compression will and it\'s adjustable.
8. roller rockers.. don’t do anything I assume because the 4.2 is low RPM? What about changing the ratio?
9. increase bore... only as much as needed for rebuild.. don’t think it will increase power SOOO much.. it wont Agreed and if nothing else I would like to avoid buying pistons if the stock bore is salvageable. I\'ve done .040 over on a water cooled VW race motor and the minimal power gain wasn\'t worth the expense.
I have built several 258\'s over the years.. and have done all of these modifications at one point or another..
my suggestions.. Fuel injection, cam and have a nice day... (and don’t skimp on bearings and rings.. used Sealed power and a good machine shop)
Title: Re: losing my 258
Post by: JCJ on July 22, 2010, 10:30:11 AM
Thanks but I\'m gonna stick with the 4.2
Title: Re: losing my 258
Post by: Crusarius on July 22, 2010, 11:01:15 AM
how bout the head? :)
Title: Re: losing my 258
Post by: JCJ on July 23, 2010, 10:32:30 AM
Normally I would on speculation for a future project but I just finished filling a 10 yard dumpster here in Indy of all of my BMW, Indycar, crap, etc. And my new garage is about a foot bigger around than my Jeep,,
Title: Re: losing my 258
Post by: Crusarius on July 23, 2010, 11:20:52 AM
sounds like you need a new garage not less stuff :)
Title: Re: losing my 258
Post by: JCJ on July 23, 2010, 01:19:42 PM
yep, one thing at a time. I\'m planning to build a big 3 bay shop across the street but I don\'t own that lot yet. Also need to refurbish the boat house and we are already talking about an addition for the new house.. and we haven\'t even moved yet.. :banghead:
Title: Re: losing my 258
Post by: meangreen on July 26, 2010, 10:21:23 AM
I got tired of playing with my 258\'s (three in 1year) I went with a ford 302, It required no adapters just some parts scrounging. I get a little better gas milage that the 258 gave me and I don\'t choke out going up hills anymore (fuel injected) It only took me one weekend to put it in and do the wireing (its easy as long as you get a mustang version) I know you said that you didn\'t want to go to v8, neither did I If it was not for my friends pestering me to try it and giving me the motor I may not have tried it but There is no way you will see me go back...EVER.
Title: Re: losing my 258
Post by: CoraC143 on July 26, 2010, 10:31:55 AM
V8 are totally awesome, and you will never want to go back once you drive one.
Title: Re: losing my 258
Post by: JCJ on July 26, 2010, 11:24:22 AM
Not sure if I\'m lazy or if it\'s the purest in me but I really like the I6.. Even this old warn out rattle trap of mine has plenty of power/torque, although I realize a v8 has more.
I\'m getting 19+ average MPG on the freeway (GPS) and am very comfortable with my understanding and tuning of my modified crappy feedback Carter carb. I really don\'t want to deal with new exhaust fab, my I6 exhaust is brand new.. The good news is that I am into this Jeep thing for the long haul so it will probably see a V8 at some point or I might just end up with a dedicated bastard trail rig in addition to my 85\' that will get all the big bells and whistles..
Of course if the right deal presents itself I could be talked into most anything, well, most anything hetero. :-D
Title: Re: losing my 258
Post by: CoraC143 on July 26, 2010, 12:19:59 PM
Some CJ\'s came with V8\'s
I have a AMC 360 in mine, and I love it. ProJection, kinda a pain in the but, but it runs upside down and on it\'s side.
I have a 86 Grand Wagoneer with a 360 in it, in my driveway, that I haven\'t touched in a couple years. It\'s a future project, but if you want to make an offer, I\'m open.
Title: Re: losing my 258
Post by: ollllllo on July 26, 2010, 05:36:04 PM
Quote
JCJ wrote: Of course if the right deal presents itself I could be talked into most anything, well, most anything hetero .
:rofl:
I too am plagued with the curse of learning the I-6 to the point im anxious to start over with something new, but in my opinion...fuel injection on the 258 and its awesome. Now its not gonna be a KOH race buggy motor, but its going to perform fine on the street and on trail rides.
Stick with what you know until you absolutely need to change! My only gripe about the I-6 is that not all parts are as readily available as Small Block Chevy parts for example. But still easier than AMC 360 parts!
good luck with whatever you decide. keep us updated!
