Fingerlakes 4X4 Forum

TECHNICAL FORUMS => General Tech => Topic started by: ExplorHer4x4 on June 03, 2009, 09:45:45 PM

Title: Welding differential spider gears and the preffered technique?
Post by: ExplorHer4x4 on June 03, 2009, 09:45:45 PM

So, I have successfully welded spider gears in a rat rod camaro and a drag FWD turbo.  The \"free\" locking differential.    

I\'d remove the spider gears and on the non axle spiders fill in the valley of the gear untill there was only 1/4 wheel spin to lockup. This seemed to work well posi and not break, but was very unpredictable when it did lockup.

I was wondering if anyone has welded to no wheel spin. Like a spool.  I\'ve heard that solid diff breaks more carriers,axles, ect.  but it would just be like a spool right?

Anyone with more experience to off-road application welded diffs? I\'d appreciate it!

Title: Re: Welding differential spider gears and the preffered technique?
Post by: Ryan_25 on June 03, 2009, 10:08:12 PM

I have welded a few. One just last night.

I like to weld solid. If you let it move around it has a tendency to break axle shafts.

Title: Re: Welding differential spider gears and the preffered technique?
Post by: MrMindless on June 03, 2009, 10:53:54 PM

I\'ve welded mine solid.  if you let them move they\'ll eventually pound down and become open again...

Title: Re: Welding differential spider gears and the preffered technique?
Post by: ExplorHer4x4 on June 04, 2009, 06:20:28 AM

What is your technique for solid.  Weld the side spider to the top and bottom in place?  or something better.?

Title: Re: Welding differential spider gears and the preffered technique?
Post by: smichaelR22 on June 04, 2009, 07:06:10 AM

Erik had the circle track guys weld his like you mentioned, it probably works better but tends to shock load the axle shaft that catches and he broke many joints before going to aussies.

My 14bolt is welded solid also in my other truck.  A 14bolt axle has some benifits that are unique to most axles so i wont go into how i did that one.  yours id just weld anything and everything you can- teeth to teeth and side gears to the case.  start out by alot of low temp tacking to keep things straight then just go at it.  


if you dont plan on removing the case from the axle after its tacked, get a can of anti splater to at least spray down the semi important parts :)

Title: Re: Welding differential spider gears and the preffered technique?
Post by: MrMindless on June 04, 2009, 08:48:58 AM

I covered with tinfoil, it worked well

I welded the gears to each other, then put steel blocks on either side of the center pin and welded the gears to that on all 4 sides.  I did not weld to the carrier.  since it\'s cast material there are lots of caveats to welding to it.

Title: Re: Welding differential spider gears and the preffered technique?
Post by: etk300ex on June 04, 2009, 09:50:16 AM

Mines welded solid  :weld:

Title: Re: Welding differential spider gears and the preffered technique?
Post by: ExplorHer4x4 on June 04, 2009, 11:18:54 AM

oooooh... i like the idea of putting in extra blocks, doubles the welding area. And saves my carrier.

Do i understand correctly that if I don\'t damage the carrier, only weld my spiders,  I could potentially upgrade to an aussie later on?  not that dana 35s are hard to find, just thinking ahead.

Title: Re: Welding differential spider gears and the preffered technique?
Post by: MrMindless on June 04, 2009, 04:39:03 PM

eh, D35 will :nuke: anyway :)

you\'ll have to cut the side and spider gears out to remove them from the differential case since they won\'t fit out of it in one piece in a single piece carrier, so don\'t count on it....  Ryan_25 may be trying that later though :)

Title: Re: Welding differential spider gears and the preffered technique?
Post by: smichaelR22 on June 04, 2009, 05:10:25 PM

you wont beable to.  i think i saw you had hubs on the front, why not try welding the front up, and save for an aussie for the rear thats a little more road friendly?

Title: Re: Welding differential spider gears and the preffered technique?
Post by: ExplorHer4x4 on June 04, 2009, 06:37:59 PM

My 8.8 rear is \'trac-loc\' clutch style LSD. When it goes loose I plan to rebuild it (like i do day-in and out at work).  I\'ve heard an extra clutch disc will tighten it up a bunch.  \"+1 mod?\".

The Explorer front although a dana 35, does not share the jeep axle housing.  It is a tubeless pumpkin with meaty stub shafts. there are no axle tubes to break loose, and better axle shafts.  It should hold up a little better than the jeep rear?  And I was thinking of welding it solid...thats how this all started!

Thanks for the input everyone!  I\'m def going solid weld whenever I have time to drop my front axle out... maybe 3 or 4 saturdays from now i\'ll have a day off work.  
But I digress, Knowledge from Experience is Priceless, and I Appreciate it!

Title: Re: Welding differential spider gears and the preffered technique?
Post by: Ryan_25 on June 04, 2009, 09:49:06 PM

I rebuilt my 8.8 in my Mustang with extra clutches and steels. The tighter you make it the more it wont slip.

Title: Re: Welding differential spider gears and the preffered technique?
Post by: MrMindless on June 05, 2009, 09:34:57 AM

Quote

Ryan_25 wrote:
The tighter you make it the more it wont slip.

I think that\'s the idea ;-)


I read D35 and thought \"crap Jeep rear\" not \"Ford TTB Front\" - sorry :)

Title: Re: Welding differential spider gears and the preffered technique?
Post by: ExplorHer4x4 on June 05, 2009, 06:55:34 PM

Its ok. :)

Has anyone else had a spool/ solid locker in front?  Any p/s problems?  should I think of adding a cooler? I\'d preferr to k.I.S.S.

A year or two back I broke the steering rack housing! on the FWD escort EXP that I locked,  this is why i ask.  I think a conventional steer system would hold up better.   Just throwing a fresh ? in.

UPDATE : I saw some good discussion of this in another thread.  i think i got what i needed. thanks

UPDATE UPDATE- Welded her up this evening. took 3 hr and change.  I got motivated by a broken bolt radius arm to axle so it had to come apart anyway...  Its mostly for personal experience cause by the winter i\'ll set my 3.73 gears with a new j/y front pumpkin and d44 hubs swap to come!

I\'ll update when i get a feel for this welded front...or break something good.

Title: Re: Welding differential spider gears and the preffered technique?
Post by: ExplorHer4x4 on July 12, 2009, 04:29:13 AM

94 Explorer 4.0 D35 TTB-welded front
I have 2 key points..

1- uber traction!

2- CANNOT be driven on the street.  (locked in) Does more than resist turning on pavement! it CANT turn 15+ mph.  on pavement:)

OFF-road it is a dream.  I can hear the p/s laboring a little during steering/axle bindup but its not bad. Strategic turning eliminates this.
And did I say traction?  Low and slow through trails with zero front wheelspin! really helped keep the interior clean this last wheel.

Unlocking one front hub gives free turning and predictable one wheel traction.  It can be driven to and fro trails like this, carefully as you can still \'feel\' the axle bind it just doesn\'t affect steering much.

Again this is a ttb D35 and my u joints are same as D44 so axle shafts might hold up a little better.  Its made One sucessful day of wheeling, a few drives around the gravel back lot at work, a drive off  a boat launch and back, and many on the fly engagements to just roll it over. SO far so good. Except that my wheel bearing hate me, but that\'s not new!

For no cost but fluid, and minimal time 3 hrs, I really like it.  Sorry no pics of the welding.    But i welded only gear to gear.  fire heated the spot untill cherry then full blast low wire welded low on the spiders.  filled alot untill only 1 valley shows between gears. 8 welds total.  I did it all with one stub shaft installed and gears in the case.  NOT a good idea but i\'m carefully reckless!

Thanks for the input everyone,  we will see how it hold up the rest of the summer.... because its got to go by winter!

Title: Re: Welding differential spider gears and the preffered technique?
Post by: carchameleon on July 12, 2009, 02:24:50 PM

i welded my d35 on my ranger, and it works nicely.
do you have manual hubs?
if not its worth the investment, i have them and its nice not to worry about the auto locking hubs.

Title: Re: Welding differential spider gears and the preffered technique?
Post by: smichaelR22 on July 13, 2009, 08:16:38 AM

after having some splatter problems and ending up tearing troys D30 apart even with gears sprayed with anti splatter, when i welded up my 60 the other night i stuffed the carrier and wrapped the ring gear with wet rags.  worked very weld.  

I have a 2\" ram (soon to be 2.5\") turning my wheels so it doesnt really care.

Title: Re: Welding differential spider gears and the preffered technique?
Post by: MrMindless on July 13, 2009, 08:31:58 AM

I wrapped my gears with a few layers of aluminum foil, that did the trick for me.

Title: Re: Welding differential spider gears and the preffered technique?
Post by: smichaelR22 on July 13, 2009, 08:44:35 AM

i have seen that trick when welding bungs to DOM with Heims threaded in.  i wasnt sure i was crazy about that and left my joints out.  I skimmed and didnt read if the authors intent was to sheld splatter or pull heat away...

Title: Re: Welding differential spider gears and the preffered technique?
Post by: MrMindless on July 13, 2009, 10:04:12 AM

Al foil doesn\'t have much mass to pull the heat away.....

Title: Re: Welding differential spider gears and the preffered technique?
Post by: smichaelR22 on July 13, 2009, 10:41:26 AM

...coarsly the reason i was scratching my head


(no i wont spew heat transfer or transport phenomena at you)